Sep 12
I am posting this to show my disapproval for Pastor Steven Anderson’s attitude. I am a Christian and we are taught to love our enemies.
I disagree with Obama but I do not hate him and I certainly don’t want him to go to Hell.
I don’t necessarily disagree with bringing a gun during the President’s speech. This guys attitude about it may or may not have been appropriate but I don’t condemn the idea. It reminds me of the quote:
“When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”
-Thomas Jefferson
September 12th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
How would you feel if you were attending the speech and another person had a visible 9mm? Presidential speeches are by far the safest public events in the country. There is no need to pack heat for your own safety. You can bring a sign, cheer, boo, wear a T-shirt with your opinions, but bringing a gun is just crossing the line. It’s a threat to others and discourages free speech.
September 12th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
“bringing a gun is just crossing the line. It’s a threat to others and discourages free speech.”
It could be crossing the line but that is the type of thing that will remind the government that we the people are in charge and not them.
The people in that state might be more used to it as it is perfectly legal there so it might not discourage free speech.
It’s one of those things that I don’t think I would ever do but I am not totally against the idea.
September 13th, 2009 at 8:04 am
I think it sends a bigger message to all of the attendees with different views than it does to the government. I’m pretty sure the government understands both sides on the gun issue, and groups like the NRA are a huge force already. Many states allow people to carry guns openly in public, but it’s just in very poor taste to do so. It’s like (if it was legal) bringing a rifle to a game at Fenway wearing Yankees gear.
September 13th, 2009 at 8:53 pm
@Andrew
I see your point.
Here is a question for you. Do you think that the Revolutionary War was righteous or just?
If so under what circumstances would it be righteous or just for another revolutionary war to take place in this day and age?
September 14th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
Good question! I see where you are going…
Well, I guess it’s hard to say that it was righteous, just due to the number of lives lost vs. the number of lives that would have been lost if we continued under British control. But, I would say it was just, due to taxation without representation.
The Civil War was righteous due to the primary noble cause that was being fought for (e.g. abolition of slavery). If another Civil War was to take place today, it wouldn’t be righteous or just unless there was a similar cause. I can’t really think of any that would work. Gay marriage comes to mind, but that fight seems to be progressing very well without any physical action. I think most everyone can see that full rights will eventually be granted and same-sex marriages will eventually be socially accepted… it’s just a matter of time. One interesting way I heard to solve it would be to, regardless of sexual orientation, have civil unions that ensure your rights. Then, the “marriage” part of it can be defined by your religion. If the fight over the word “marriage” is the problem from a religious perspective (and it seem to be), then that should solve it.
And now, where I think you’re going with this: Defending the constitution would be a just circumstance, especially 1A. 2A has always been a little fuzzy but the Supreme Court ruled last year (DC vs. Heller) that it means you can carry a gun for “traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home”. I think it would be hard to find someone that disagrees with that. It’s still a very fuzzy issue, but I think it would be a just cause to revolt over gun rights if the question was regarding your right to self defense.
September 14th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
I don’t think it would be about Gay marriage. Which by the way I am okay with being legal but I don’t think any Bible believing church should ever marry same sex couples.
I think it could be about of the government being too tyrannical and not staying within the context of the constitution. Or it could be as a result of massive inflation and the people can’t afford to live anymore.
As Gerald Celente says: “When people loose everything, they loose it.”
September 15th, 2009 at 8:44 am
Yeah, like I said, that fight is progressing without physical action. I can’t envision anything more than the protests that are currently taking place. Regarding religious belief, I think it all comes down to one’s interpretation of the Bible. It seems to me that the majority of Christians are liberal Christians (i.e. not fundamentalists). If the same-sex couple are Christians, then they should choose to get married with a church/denomination that holds their same values. If someone in that church does not hold the same values, then they should clearly choose a different denomination or church.
Overall, I think the most backlash we will see are protests. The checks and balances system should prevent strong violation of the constitution (though, of course, it has failed for things like the Patriot Act).
September 15th, 2009 at 10:09 am
I can envision more then just protests.
The Bible calls homosexuality detestable. It is clearly a sin. People can call themselves Christians but that doesn’t mean they are.
How can someone be a Christian and at the same time pretend that the homosexual relationship they are having is righteous when it clearly contradicts the Bible?
“The checks and balances system should prevent strong violation of the constitution.” – Most of what government does is unconstitutional.
September 15th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
I think there are many interpretations. I’ll ignore Leviticus, since from my understanding Christians have rejected that because of 1 Corinthians. But, what about Deuteronomy 13 which suggests that you should kill anyone with a different religion?
What do you think of Michael Borg and the Jesus Seminar? They claim to be Christians and vote on what they perceive to be true and what they perceive to be false in the Bible based on scholarly research. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Seminar
The Constitution was purposely created to be vague and interpreting it has been tasked to our courts, which sets new precedents based on cases. I certainly agree with you that there are some things done by the government that seem to be unconstitutional (some things don’t get subjected to the courts which is unconstitutional, whether they are right or wrong), but I don’t think that “most” is unconstitutional.
September 15th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
If the sight of a firearm is enough to stop you from speaking your mind then I have to question your commitment to your beliefs and that of “free speech”. Plenty of people like to exercise their right to free speech but they never want to entertain that speech may have a price or consequence. Free speech really isn’t.
September 16th, 2009 at 7:58 am
@Andrew
It wasn’t just someone that had a different religion. It was someone who secretly enticed them to worship other gods.
Besides that Christians are under a new covenant. We are no longer under the old law (old testament).
“What do you think of Michael Borg and the Jesus Seminar? They claim to be Christians and vote on what they perceive to be true and what they perceive to be false in the Bible based on scholarly research. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Seminar”
-I haven’t heard of this until now. From what I can see I don’t have a problem with it. They are writing things they believe to be true about the historical Jesus. They might be wrong about some stuff but I don’t think they are claiming that their writings are divine or infallible. They are historians that are trying to paint a picture with in some cases indirect information which can be interpreted different ways.
In my view anything that the federal government was not given authority to do in the Constitution does not have the authority to do. You seem to believe that the government can do anything that isn’t forbidden by the constitution.
September 16th, 2009 at 9:19 am
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that is debated, and depends on the congregation.
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/otlaw.html
No, I don’t believe that. I think that each branch of the government’s actions need to be reviewed by the other branches. The constitution is far from complete or perfect. It’s a living document.
September 16th, 2009 at 8:51 pm
I believe that there is an underscore here—- something not quite clear. The water is murky.
Why are “Christians” so stirred up by the events of today? Yes, we must do our part to ensure that we leave the environment in better shape for our children, and yes we must take an interest in the government, especially wehen it concerns the individual’s right to worship as they see fit, and humanitarian issues as well.
Jesus said, render unto caesar the things that are caesar’s and unto God the things that are God’s.
If we look at Christ’s life, we know that He wasn’t politcal. Instead he taught us to love one another and not to judge. How many organized Christian religions do you know of that don’t judge? Who believes that the Holy Spirit will guide you if you allow Him too, even when things go against one’s “perception”?
Consider that in the middle of the personal universe that there is a ball, sometimes large, sometimes small. Whatever the size, it hinders the ability to see anything past the limited angles and views of where we are at that moment in relationship to that ball (the ball is anything present in our egocentric mind at the time). Consider what we are unable to see, and if we could only see the other things how they would shape and turn our hubristic thoughts, ideals, certainties.
What I sense here is FEAR. Fear of politics, fear of those who sin, fear of acceptance of those who sin by “Christian” and non-Christian.
Christians shouldn’t draw lines in the sand. Christians should be Christians by Christ’s standards. They were apolitical, non-judgmental— He was against the letter of the law. He thought outside the box. He was kind and compassionate and forgiving. He was love in all its essence, and could see through the “ball”— the big blind spot that inhibits our vision, past those who harrumph at those lower than “us Christians”.
Sins are between the sinner and our Father. Christ said “let you who are among you without sin cast the first stone…” HE DID NOT CONDEMN, nor was He afraid. He chose to be among sinners rather than the elite religious leaders. He condemned the religious leaders. Read what he said about the Sadducees and Pharisees.
When I look at the label “Christian”, it makes me sick at heart and mind because of today’s connotations, cruelty, JUDGEMENTS…. Very similar to the radical Taliban and Al-Qaida. I hate the label, but I try to follow the teachings of Christ.
And these collective posts seem to conform to the thinking of the end of the world and Armageddon— and whose side will you be on.
Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
But the Bible also says: 1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
And then: Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years shall be finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go forth, and seduce the nations, which are over the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, and shall gather them together to battle, the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
The big news is—and the GOOD news is, that Armageddon won’t be fought on earth at the mount of olives or anywhere else. Armageddon will be fought after the worthy (I say worthy because none are righteous all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Christ is our salvation, but we will not be made perfect until we enter the realm of Heaven.) have been with our Lord in Heaven after a 1,000 years. Then Satan will be loosed from his pit and rally those left on earth to war on Heaven and those already saved.
Read the Bible closely. It’s all in there.